(...)
Funk & Wagnalls New Standard Dictionary (1952) includes in the definition of Deist: "One who believes in God but denies supernatural revelation." There is no question Jefferson rejected the Bible as divine revelation and rejected the divinity of Jesus. In the Declaration of Independence Jefferson's appeal was to the God of the Deist, "Nature's God," not specifically to the God of Christianity (see letter dated Sep. 14, 1813, to Jefferson from John Adams equating "Nature's God" with "the revelation from nature").
As President, Jefferson occasionally attended church services; but, he was not a communing member of any Christian church. Further, he refused to proclaim any national days of prayer or thanksgiving.
Jefferson says he was a "Materialist" (letter to Short, Apr. 13, 1820) and a "Unitarian" (letter to Waterhouse, Jan. 8, 1825).
Jefferson rejected the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity" (letter to Derieux, Jul. 25, 1788),
as well as the doctrine of an eternal Hell (letter to Van der Kemp, May 1, 1817).
Further, Jefferson specifically named Joseph Priestly (English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (English Deist) and said: "I rest on them ... as the basis of my own faith" (letter to Adams, Aug. 22, 1813).
Therefore, without using the actual words, Jefferson issued an authentic statement claiming Deism as his faith.
The 1971 (ninth edition) Encyclopedia Britannica, 7:183, states the following:
"By the end of the 18th century deism had become a dominant religious attitude among upper-class Americans, and the first three presidents of the United States held this conviction, as is amply evidenced in their correspondence."
Therefore, it is appropriate to quote the two following paragraphs from the correspondence of President Thomas Jefferson wherein he wrote specifically about deism, as taught by Jesus.
.
. http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm
Therefore, it is appropriate to quote the two following paragraphs from the correspondence of President Thomas Jefferson wherein he wrote specifically about deism, as taught by Jesus.
"In consequence of some conversation with Dr. Rush, in the year 1798-99, I had promised some day to write him a letter giving him my view of the Christian system. I have reflected often on it since, & even sketched the outlines in my own mind. I should first take a general view of the moral doctrines of the most remarkable of the antient [ancient] philosophers, of whose ethics we have sufficient information to make an estimate, . . . .
I should then take a view of the deism and ethics of the Jews, and show in what a degraded state they were, and the necessity they presented of a reformation.
I should proceed to a view of the life, character, & doctrines of Jesus, who sensible of incorrectness of their ideas of the Deity, and of morality, endeavored to bring them to the principles of a pure deism, and juster notions of the attributes of God, to reform their moral doctrines to the standard of reason, justice & philanthropy, and to inculcate the belief of a future state. This view would purposely omit the question of his divinity, & even his inspiration. To do him justice, it would be necessary to remark . . . that his system of morality was the most benevolent & sublime probably that has been ever taught, and consequently more perfect than those of any of the antient philosophers." (Ltr. to Joseph Priestly, Apr. 9, 1803.)
"I had believed that [Connecticut was] the last retreat of monkish darkness, bigotry, and abhorrence of those advances of the mind which had carried the other States a century ahead of them. ...
I join you, therefore, in sincere congratulations that this den of the priesthood is at length broken up, and that a Protestant Popedom is no longer to disgrace the American history and character.
If by religion we are to understand [i.e., to mean] sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, 'that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'
But if the moral precepts, innate in man, and made a part of his physical constitution, as necessary for a social being, if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth, in which all agree, constitute true religion, then, without it, this would be, as you again say, 'something not fit to be named even, indeed, a hell.'" (Ltr. to Adams, May 5, 1817,Writings,A.A.Lipscomb,15:108-109.)
. http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/jefferson_deist.htm
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Ou seja, Jefferson vê Jesus como um deísta e filantropo, e o cristianismo como um código de conduta moral no qual "todos podemos concordar".
Ref: A Comprehensive Collection of the Views of Thomas Jefferson
Um apologista de tese Jefferson cristão afirma:
"Jefferson, who gave his money to assist missionary work among the Indians, believed his "abridgement of the New Testament for the use of the Indians" would help civilize and educate America's aboriginal inhabitants. Nor did Jefferson cut all miracles from his work, as Beliles points out."
Eis a refutação:
"How totally absurd. Jefferson says no such thing as "Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth Extracted From the New Testament for the Use of the Indians." The actual title is The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth Extracted Textually from the Gospels. He does not use the word "Christ," then he left out one of the central events of Christianity, the Resurrection? That this isn't the original? Finally, how many Christians would hand out this instead of the King James [Bible]?"
. http://www.sullivan-county.com/deism/jefferson_deist.htm .
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Novamente, Jefferson vê o cristianismo (mensagens de Jesus) como um excelente código de conduta moral. E só.
"Jefferson was a true friend of the Christian faith. But was he a true Christian? A nominal Christian – as demonstrated by his lifelong practice of attending worship services, reading the Bible, and following the moral principles of Christ – Jefferson was not, in my opinion, a genuine Christian. In 1813, after his public career was over, Jefferson rejected the deity of Christ. Like so many millions of church members today, he was outwardly religious, but never experienced the new birth that Jesus told Nicodemus was necessary to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28006 (World Net Daily)
(...)
"The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments."
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A conclusão é de que os Founding Father não eram nem cristãos devotos e nem iluministas anti-clericais raivosos; eles eram deístas pró-cristãos. Isso é consenso acadêmico.
vide também: In 1796, U.S. Vowed Friendliness With Islam (ibid, desça a barra de rolagem)
Founding Father Benjamin Franklin (não Jefferson) foi membro do Hell Fire Club (Clube do Fogo do Inferno), um clube de aristocratas debochados que realizava missas negras num espírito voltaireano.
The coroner is examining skeletons found beneath statesman's former London house, says Robin Young
Remains of ten bodies at Ben Franklin's home
WORKMEN have dug up the remains of ten bodies hidden beneath the former London home of Benjamin Franklin, the founding father of American independence.
The remains of four adults and six children were discovered during the £1.9 million restoration of Franklin's home at 36 Craven Street, close to Trafalgar Square. Researchers believe that there could be more bodies buried beneath the basement kitchens.
Initial estimates are that the bones are about 200 years old and were buried at the time Franklin was living in the house, which was his home from 1757 to 1762, and from 1764 to 1775. Most of the bones show signs of having been dissected, sawn or cut. One skull has been drilled with several holes. Paul Knapman, the Westminster Coroner, said yesterday: "I cannot totally discount the possibility of a crime. There is still a possibility that I may have to hold an inquest."
The principal suspect in the mystery is William Hewson, like Franklin a Fellow of the Royal Society, and the husband of Polly Stevenson, the daughter of Franklin's landlady, Mary Stevenson.
In the early 1770s Dr Hewson was in partnership with William Hunter, who, with his brother John, was one of the founders of British surgery. Dr Hunter and Dr Hewson ran a school of anatomy in Soho, but after an argument Dr Hewson left to live in Franklin's house, where he is believed to have established a rival school and lecture theatre. Dr Knapman added yesterday: "It is most likely that these are anatomical specimens that Dr Hewson disposed of in his own house, but we are still not certain about the bones' exact age or origin."
"Evangeline Hunter-Jones, deputy chairman of the Friends of Benjamin Franklin House, the charity concerned with restoring the property and opening it to the public, said: "The bones were quite deeply buried, probably to hide them because grave robbing was illegal. There could be more buried, and there probably are."
Brian Owen Smith has volunteered to lead researches on behalf of the friends. He said yesterday: "The discovery represents an important insight into very exciting years of medical history. Benjamin Franklin, through his support for Polly and Dr Hewson, socially and scientifically, was very much part of that."
To the suggestion that Franklin might have been a grave robber, or an accomplice to Dr Hewson, Hilaire Dubourcq, of the Friends of Benjamin Franklin House, responded: "It is possible that he has an alibi. It seems likely that he actually let Dr Hewson have use of the whole house for his school for a time, and went up the street to live with Mary Stevenson. He did not necessarily know what was happening below stairs in the house during his absence."
Dr Hewson fell victim to his own researches at an early age. He accidentally cut himself while dissecting a putrid body, contracted septicemia and died in 1774, aged 34.
Franklin, who wrote the opening words to the Declaration of Independence, continued to support the widowed Polly, and when he returned to Philadelphia he invited her there to live as his neighbour. Both her sons became eminent medical men, as have successive generations of Hewsons in America.
"If the first Dr Hewson did obtain bodies for his experiments and demonstrations by robbing local graveyards, he risked the death penalty or deportation. He might have had the help of his students in secretly burying the remains beneath the four-storey house, where the dissections may have been performed.
It is hoped to reopen the house to the public at the end of the year. Regular visitors during Franklin's residency included Pitt the Elder (the Earl of Chatham), Edmund Burke, James Boswell, Adam Smith and Thomas Paine, the author of The Rights of Man.
Antes de lançar “tuas” conclusões difamatórias sobre Jefferson faça o seguinte: Leia o que mesmo escreveu; procure informações em mais de uma fonte (pró e contra) sobre sua pessoa; procure ler algum livro a respeito do tema em questão, etc. Depois de tudo isso, utilizando todo conhecimento adquirido no assunto, escreva um artigo, ou se preferir uma monografia. Após fazer isso, se preferir, poste o trabalho nessa comunidade compartilhando todo teu conhecimento com os demais.
Mas, honestamente falando, tu não fizeste nada disso. Copiou e colou meia dúzia de artigos e fofocas catadas pela internet. Não teve sequer o trabalho de traduzir os parágrafos copiados. E, após isso, veio com uma arrogância tremenda se exibindo como "erudito" no assunto abordado. Porra! Não é a primeira vez que tu fazes isso aqui. Se tu tem preguiça de ler um único livro a respeito do tema, então mais preguiça tenho eu de ler o que tu colou, de comentar, e de te levar a sério.
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/south/four.html http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4074/is_2006…artBody;col1o talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart. At what age of the Christian church this heresy of immaterialism, this masked atheism, crept in, I do not know. But heresy it certainly is.Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter.But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
Acho que já está mais do que demonstrado que Jefferson era deísta e não cristão. Pró-cristão sim, mas deísta.
Ele apreciava os ensinamentos morais do cristianismo mas não acreditava em nenhum dos dogmas cristãos.
"Copiou e colou meia dúzia de artigos e fofocas catadas pela internet. Não teve sequer o trabalho de traduzir os parágrafos copiados. E, após isso, veio com uma arrogância tremenda se exibindo como "erudito""
Eu não fiz nada disso., Gustavo Sua reacção é psicótica.
Quando disse que se alguém quisesse eu traduziria, não estava sendo arrogante. Falei a sério. Quando posto cousas em inglês costumo traduzir trechos, se pedirem.
Se não gosta do meu estilo, lamento. Também não gosto do estilo da maioria aqui. Outros não gostam do estilo do Olavo. But those are matters of taste.
Eu não postei "fofocas" catadas na internet. Eu postei artigos e citações do próprio Jefferson (fonte primária) que demonstram irrefutavelmente que ele era deísta.
Mas eu achava que todo mundo já sabia disso e que o Ricardo era o único que insistia na tese de que Jefferson era um "verdadeiro cristão".
O deísmo dos Founding Fathers é notório e amplamente conhecido.
Ah bom, deixe-me fazer então um pequeno comentário:
Jefferson dizia:
ser materialista + que não acreditava em milagres + não acreditar na Encarnação + que Jesus era um reformador moral + que o Novo Testamento foi escrito por "mentes inferiores" que deturparam a mensagem de Jesus + que ele podia racionalmente separar o que era joio do trigo nos discursos de Jesus + que uma vez isto feito o cristianismo emergia como o que realmente era, o melhor dos sistemas de ética.
"Falar sobre coisas imateriais é falar sobre o nada. Dizer que a alma, os anjos ou deus são coisas imateriais é o mesmo que dizer que não existem. Não consigo pensar de outro jeito; mas acredito que na crença materialista estou acompanhado por Locke, Tracy e Stewart. (...)
Thomas Jefferson, carta a John Adams, Aug. 15, 1820
Chegará o dia em que o nascimento místico de Jesus, gerado pelo ser supremo no ventre de uma virgem será considerado uma fábula assim como a lenda da deusa Minerva, gerada do cérebro de Júpiter.
Mas podemos ter esperança de que a aurora da razão e da liberdade de pensamento nesses Estados Unidos irão acabar com esse misticismo e trazer de volta as doutrinas genuínas e primitivas [morais] desse venerado reformador de erros humanos [Jesus]
Thomas Jefferson, Carta a John Adams, Abril 11, 1823
"Eu achava que Connecticut era o último refúgio das trevas monasteriais, do obscurantismo religioso e do ódio aos progressos do pensamento que ocorreram nos outros Estados, os quais estão um século na frente deles...
Eu me junto a ti, portanto, e envio minhas sinceras congratulações ao fato de que esse ninho do clero está em grande parte quebrado e que um papado protestante não existe mais para desgraçar a História e caráter americano.
Se por religião nós queremos dizer esses dogmas sectários, nos quais ninguém chega a um consenso, então sua exclamação sobre aquela hipótese é justa, de que "o melhor dos mundos seria aquele no qual não existe nenhuma religião".
Mas se os preceitos morais, inatos no homem, e feitos parte de sua constituição física, como é necessária a um ser social, se as doutrinas sublimes de filantropia e deísmo ensinadas a nós por Jesus de Nazaré, com as quais todos podemos concordar, constituem a verdadeira religião, então um mundo sem isso, seria, como tu dizes, "um mundo pior do que o inferno"
(carta a Adams, maio 5, 1817,Writings,A.A.Lipscomb,15:108-109.)
Uriel
Posso catar meia dúzia de frases de Hitler em seu livro “A Minha Luta” e dizer que o mesmo é um cristão. Posso catar frases em discursos de Himmler e dizer que o mesmo era humanista. Justamente por isso que defendi um estudo honesto sobre o caso, não de forma leviana.
Quanto a Jefferson, não entrei no mérito da questão, tampouco quis. Não tenho o hábito de sair palpitando sobre assuntos que tenho pouco conhecimento. Minha crítica ao teu “modus operandi” não se resumia a esse tópico em questão, mas a todos que tu vens abrindo ultimamente. Em outro tópico sobre os tribunais judaicos, em dado momento, afirmaste que em Utah a poligamia era legal. Catou meia dúzia de trechos de site para provar esse fato, mas que não sustentavam em nada tuas declarações. Quando pedi para ti citar tais leis, não foi capaz de citar nenhuma; desconversou.
Tu tens mania de abrir tópicos em seqüência, sem antes encerrar ou amadurecer as discussões abordadas.
Nada pessoal, mas tua obsessão anticristão e antijudáica está ficando chata. Está parecendo o Constantino.
Deístas acreditam no Criador e no Deus da Natureza.
Cristãos acreditam nos milagres, na Revelação, na Bíblia, na Divindade de Cristo, no nascimento virginal etc. Deístas não acreditam em nada disso.
Jefferson não acreditava em nada disso.
Respeitava Jesus como um professor moral e um "deísta" (!). O Jesus dele era o das parábolas morais ("oferece a outra face" etc) e só. Não era o Cristo.
Logo, Jefferson era deísta e não cristão.
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Quanto a notícia das ossadas encontradas na casa de Franklin, foi publicada originalmente pelo Sunday Times (. http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/98/02/1…012.html?999 . - link quebrado)
Uma hipótese é que tenha sido coisa de William Hewson, médico e hóspede de Franklin.
Curiosidades das Luzes.
(quer dizer que eu sou anti-cristão como o Rodrigo Constantino!?
Curioso, eu achava que era pró-cristão, a ponto de ser frequentemente acusado de "carola". Só não recebi o Baptismo ainda por razões pessoais
Ah, esqueci, cristão de verdade era o Jefferson!...
Se Jefferson, não acreditando na Encarnação, nos milagres, na ressurreição, na tradição apostólica, na confiabilidade dos Evangelistas, na inspiração divina do Novo Testamento; pensando ser capaz de escolher por si mesmo que palavras vieram ou não de Jesus; afirmando que este era o "mais venerável dos reformadores" da humanidade; sendo materialista etc. pode ser chamado de cristão...Então, Allan Kardec também pode.
While a surface reading of War and Peace, Anna Karenina, and Resurrection might make a Christian reader suspect that Leo Tolstoy was a Christian, his non-fiction prose reveals unquestionably that he was anything but that. Of course, Tolstoy believed that virtually he alone had discovered real Christianity and his family constantly spoke of him as a "Christian." From the vantage point of historic Christian orthodoxy, however, his excommunication from the Russian Orthodox Church was warranted.
Tolstoy was ambiguous about whether God was truly a personal being. He denied the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Christ. Naturally, corollaries of those denials meant that he did not believe in the virginal conception of Christ, His genuine miracles, His redemptive death, or His bodily resurrection. To Tolstoy Jesus was simply teaching that He was what all people were and potentially could be.
"A religion based on the principles that were put forth by Jesus and his original followers would be acceptable to an extremely large number of people. It would provide people with the moral and ethical guidelines needed to attempt to lead a good life, while not requiring them to deny the scientific knowledge that humanity has gained."
Sim, Maria, Tolstoi defendia que o "verdadeiro" cristianismo era o anarquismo. Jefferson insistia que o "verdadeiro" cristianismo estava em princípios liberais. Não tem gente que compara Che Guevara com São Francisco de Assis ou com o próprio Jesus Cristo?
Esse pessoal não era cristão.Pois só são verdadeiros cristãos os católicos,isso é o ensinamento da Igreja.Eles se apropriam erroneamente do nome de cristãos e só.
"Today, a common interpretation of that clause [a proibição de estabelecimento de igrejas pelo Estado na Constituição Americana] goes beyond these scholarly ones, prohibiting not only a religious establishment but any "intrusion" of religion in any public square, national, state or local. This last readind cites as its authority Jefferson´s "wall of separation between church and state", enunciated in his famous New Year´s Day letter of 1802 to the Danbury Baptist Association. Yet Jefferson may not have meant by that wall what it is often taken to mean today. Two days after that Danbury letter, the first Sunday of the new year, Jefferson attended a service not in the local church that he normally attended, but in the House of Representatives, a custom he continued for the next seven years. One scholar goes so far as to say that on Sundays in Washington, during his presidency, "the state became the church".
(continua)
Long before his presidency Jefferson have displayed a more subtle and appreciative attitude toward religion than is generally attributed to him. His cavalier dismissal of religion in Notes on the State of Virginia is often quoted: "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg". But only a few pages later he wrote: "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the goft of God? That they are not violated but with His wrath?. This was before Jefferson´s supposed conversion to Unitarianism under influence of [Joseph] Priestley, when he came to recognize Jesus as a moral preceptor and saviour.
As president, he was even more respectful of Christianity as the bulwark of liberty and public morality. A friend happened to meet him on his way to church one sunday morning carrying his large red prayer book. "You going to church, Mr. J. You do not believe in a word in it". "Sir", Jefferson replied, "no nation has ever yet existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be.. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I as chief magistrate of this nation am bound to give it the sanction of my example. Good morning, Sir"
Fonte: HIMMELFARB, Gertrude. The Roads to Modernity, páginas 208-209
Se não houver suspeita quanto a legitimidade das declarações de Jefferson penso que não há muito que sustentar em favor do cristianismo dele.
Em alguns círculos de debates conservadores já vi uma apropriação semelhante do cristianismo. Reconhece-se a sua importância como regulador social, a “rédea” moralista, porque a visão de mundo é praticamente maçonico-iluminista.
Não Fábio,essa ´´Nova Igreja´´ apóstata que usurpa o nome de católica que diz que os protestantes e ortodoxos são verdadeiros cristãos....não a verdadeira Igreja Católica.
Esse é o ensinamento de S.Cipriano de Cartago que Pio IX repete.
Repito,é uma apropriação indevida do nome de Cristãos.